Sidebar Discussion on Programming Languages (C, Python, Fortran, et al.)

I was never impressed with Python, because of its quirks, idioms and cross-version incompatibilities. The ultimate setup is gcc-compiled C programs with some Javascript-heavy html files for analysis and presentation purposes.

you're comparing apples and oranges, if not meat and vegetables. There are no better or worse languages, only better or worse languages suitable for a task. Apart from that, there are also different standards in C such as e.g. C99 or C11 and of course various compilers, even if gcc is probably the most common.

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As an active, commercial full-stack web-developer your statement above @technossomy makes no sense at all. Obviously, you do not design complex web-applications for commercial use. I'm sorry to tell you. It's sounds "cool" to say it (I guess) but in reality most all modern day web apps use a MVC framework and this would cost a fortune to create every web app in C as you describe.

I also cannot fully agree with this sorry. There are some programming languages better off left to history. Even if all tasks were equal, there are just some programming languages which are are relics of the past. Without getting into the specifics, let's just say that there are many poorly written programming languages on Planet Earth.

of course. I should have added 'or absolutely unsuitable' :slight_smile:

There are no tasks I am going to write any Basic, Pascal, Ada, Lisp or Fortran to solve in 2021.

Fortran may be an ancient language, but it is still very common in scientific computing, cause it's real fast. It has been continuously developed, since the 2000s also OOP and concurrency is possible.

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Fortran is not common according to Tiobe’s methodology.

Recently it was ranked as low as zero!

https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/fortran/

Tiobe's ranking is based on the frequency of the number of search engine results for queries containing a language. That says nothing about how often a language is actually used in which area.

That is not fully true.

TIOBE uses a broader methodology than you mentioned.

I posted it earlier; maybe review it again ?

Let us copy and paste their methodology into this discussion from their web site description?

Here it is again…. It is broader than described:

The TIOBE Programming Community index is an indicator of the popularity of programming languages. The index is updated once a month. The ratings are based on the number of skilled engineers world-wide, courses and third party vendors. Popular search engines such as Google, Bing, Yahoo!, Wikipedia, Amazon, YouTube and Baidu are used to calculate the ratings. It is important to note that the TIOBE index is not about the best programming language or the language in which most lines of code have been written

No one I know makes a penny programming in Fortran FWIW.

There are many alternatives to Fortran for scientific computing in 2021.

in the last month .... (i last coded fortran 1986 ... - radar simulation )

"""Side Opportunity
Hi Glenn,

I am getting in touch, as I can see you have some Fortran experience on you profile.

I have an interesting short term contract opportunity on behalf of my global steel manufacturing client. They are looking for someone with good experience of Fortran.
In short this work will be the following:

Up to ÂŁ800/day
1 week long
Fully remote
1 week contracts available every 3-6 months moving forward.

Depending on your experience of Fortran, this could be a nice little earner on the side of a permanent or contract role you are currently in.

If you would like to discuss further, please provide your best contact number and I will get back to you.

Thank you for your time,
Shabba

Shabba Vaithianathan
Senior Client Services Consultant at Randstad UK"""

and another (again via linkedIn), this time with OPEN VMS ... last used that also in the 80's

"""

Member’s nameNadine PMember’s occupationSenior Consultant at Troy Consultancy

Hi , Glenn

We are looking for Fortran with Open VMS Consultant to work on a long-term contract in UK, with market rate Inside IR 35. Remote work until the pandemic ends.

If interested, kindly share your CV to raj@troyconsultancy.co.uk with work eligibility & notice period.

Regards.
Nadine/Raj
See less

Reply to NadineReply to Nadine P’S message
"""

well, I'm neither an expert in Fortran (1) nor in Tiobe (2). I've stuck to these summaries:

1a) Fortran is a general-purpose language designed for scientific and engineering work, and remains in widespread use today for that purpose, including to write benchmark tests for the world’s fastest supercomputers. Fortran has been used extensively in fields such as space exploration, physics research, and weather modeling.
Good for: Aerospace / defense, scientific computing, numeric analysis [20 Computer Languages for 2020. A breakdown of the top languages to… | by Kenneth Reilly | The Startup | Medium]

1b) Fortran is built from the ground up to translate mathematics into simple, readable, and fast code – straightforwardly maintainable by the gamut of mathematicians, scientists, and engineers who actually produce/apply that mathematics. [FAQ — Fortran90 1.0 documentation]

2a) The index is calculated from the number of search engine results for queries containing the name of the language. The index covers searches in Google, Google Blogs, MSN, Yahoo!, Baidu, Wikipedia and YouTube. [Wikpedia]

2b) The ratings are calculated by counting hits of the most popular search engines. [TIOBE Index - TIOBE]

I'll leave it that way. It is not in my interest to start a discussion. Obviously we have different opinions, but that's not a problem.

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no axes/beefs here merely sharing, good to have a wide range of opinions/preferences imho anyhow.

LOL

I quickly searched LinkedIn for Fortran Jobs and each time the link to the search result actually was looking for other languages such as Python. it is silly to argue that Fortran is popular in 2021. The last time I programmed in Fortran was in 1986 :slight_smile:

On another note, I just helped retire a legacy accounting system written in AWK which the organization hated.

They hated it but they had many decades of code the org depended on for operations and no viable way to replace all the features.

Now it is history, a relic of the past.

My point is that just because something exists in the world does not make it good. Many orgs are held hostage by legacy systems and those who make a living maintaining them.

i just freed one such organization from their legacy system nightmare and they are ecstatic about it. They can add few features now in a tiny fraction of the time because they do not have to code all the IO anymore. They do not have to accept all the rounding and math errors from the legacy system.

Back to Fortran… is it still used today? Sure. It is popular? No. Are many orgs replacing or hoping to replace legacy Fortran systems ? I do not know but my guess is yes. The scientific programming jobs been moving to other languages like Python, for example.

Please suggest web sites for us to continue our imperfect survey of job listings and programming languages from various sites: