unix employment

How does one know that he/she has the skills and enough knowledge of Unix to start applying for unix sys admin jobs? I am learning by telneting into a free bsd system. Will this prepare me for a solaris job?

Short answer - No.

Details -

A Solaris sysadmin job is generally going to require some real experience in I.T. where at least part of the time you were working on Unix systems. For example, as a helpdesk or tech support person in a mixed environment with some Unix, or an operator with duties that included Unix systems. Just self-teaching as you describe won't cut it with most employers looking for a sysadmin. The basic thing is a Solaris admin is not an entry level job . . . .

However, the fact that you are learning Unix is pretty impressive and would give you an advantage trying to get one of those entry level jobs. I would suggest you shoot for one of those support or ops positions and after a year or two of experience then go for a sysadmin job.

The one possible exception is if you found a very large site with many (I'm thinking 10-15+) sysadmins hundreds of machines. A place like that probably would hire some junior Unix admins to do the crappy day to day work that the more senior ones don't have time for. Password updates, creating users, home directory quotas - real basic stuff like that. A position like that would be awesome to get experience from, but most smaller shops don't have the need or money to hire very junior people just to do those things.

As an example - I work for a division of a big company. In my group there are 8 Unix admins. Somebody without at least a couple years experience can't even get an interview to be an admin on our team. I have been an admin over 5 years and I'm actually the 2nd most junior guy here. But the corporate IT group (which is much larger) does employ people to be account admins and level 1 helpdesk type jobs where they work on Unix systems and can get that experience. If you were going to apply for my company you'd have no chance with my group, but might land a job with the corporate IT department in one of their junior spots.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion. Hopefully others will give theirs so you get a more balanced response to think about.

One last point - studying any type of bsd isn't too good for learning Solaris. Sun quit using lots of bsd and went almost completely sys V when they switched to Solaris (from SunOS) back in the mid 90's. I'd suggest downloading Solaris x86 and finding some old PC to run it on for learning purposes.

Thank you for your advice and opinion. I appreciate the information and will act on it in my pursuit of becoming a sys admin. Thanks again.

Guys - just thought I'd move this to the O/T forum seeing as it isn't really a "technical" question - I thought it would be more appropriate here.

Soon I'm migrating to Australia (hope my boss isn't reading this - not told them yet ;)) - and now that I've got my LPI Linux SysAdmin Certification, plus a good few years SysAdmin experience (in Windows/HP-UX/Linux(SUSE)), I'm *fairly* certain that I should land a pretty good Linux sysadmin position.

Cheers
ZB

Zazzy let me be the first to say welcome to the land down under! (I'm in Syd)

As for the topic.

I started out 3 1/2 years ago working with a company just with basic knowledge of Linux (IT though for 4 1/2 years) . Over the years I was there I learnt Solaris pretty good for self taught on the job. When I left there I didn't have enough experience to be classed as a Snr Unix admin (About 1-2yrs off) and I had too much to be classed as a Jnr :frowning: so wasn't to much going for me. I did however knock back jobs as I wasn't willing to travel interstate right now.

Anyway I'm now a Technical Consultant :smiley: Make me sound smart doesn't it heehee. I work cross platforma nd I'll be working on getting certs just to help me get a Unix admin role, not as a Jnr though.

But what I'm getting to is I'm working in IT, it's easy for me to move around I've worked on jobs/contracts that give me a good range of skills. Making it easy to move. I would suggest that you just go for a helpdesk/entry level role if your not in IT already! The hardest thing is breaking into the IT world. Once your in it's pretty easy if you're will to do some hard yards :smiley:

Other people make differ from what I'm about to say. Though most people I know who work a *nix system know Windows, MAC, networking, Backups, hardware, programming etc. For me to know just Unix can't be done, Unix just helps make you shine in what you do best. Unix is the tool that makes everything run smoothly as it is a smooth O/S itself.

@woofie: Cheers! My wife is an Aussie and we're relocating to Melbourne - the UK is pants (i.e. not a place I would like to bring up my daughter) - and although a born Brit I can't wait to get out to Oz and show them how to use Linux properly :wink:

I've gotta agree with what woofie is saying. I think a solid background in programming (amongst other things) is a good prerequisite for any job. I am (dare I say it) very proficient in automation through shell scripting, plus I know a good deal of Java, PHP, Perl and C. The "logic" of programming gives you an immense understanding of computing at a "lower" level (even with high-level languages!).

Whilst using Linux at home, I moved into my Windows job, and automated a lot of Windows tasks through shell scripting via Cygwin (Linux emulation layer on Windows). This enabled me to move within the organistation into HP-UX and Linux administration by showing my seniors a thing or two about saving time :wink:

When I first started working with *nix OSes I thought "My god, what flexibilty" - I am by no means starting a OS vs OS debate here, but I was amazed by *nix's way of getting the OS to work for you, rather than you working to get the OS to do what you want it to....

BTW, Woofie - if there are any jobs going in Sydney, we'd be willing to move up there! :stuck_out_tongue:

Also; I am looking for developers to help me with some of my Open Source projects - I've got so much on the go at the moment it's hard to keep track of everything. If any of you would care to take a look at my site (http://www.zazzybob.com) and would like to help out, please drop me a line. Something I'd like to do is port my ZSysInfo script to Solaris, and develop my ZBKB application further (look at /sbin on my site... you'll see what I'm on about). None of this work is commercial, all of it is GPL'd, and I'd love to collaborate with like-minded individuals to expedite development.
Cheers
ZB

i often see people going this way:
1-3 years trainee -- teached by a senior admin
2-5 years administation -- like a better callcenter, supporting the staffers
and then they became a system-administators, for one or two specific enviroments.....

the peoples who love stress and are good enough are working as a systems-engineer. systems-engineers are primarily specialising in one domain, they need to know everything the system-administrators don't know :wink:

well, the best paid job is for sure the SE but the admin job is more stressless......

gP

Fantastic!!!!

Zazzy Sorry about the delayed reply I've been moving homes and well I'm without Internet until my new service comes online :smiley: Might I add though I'm crying I'm going from 10Mbit cable to 1500/512 DSL :mad: I don't think I can get faster where I am moving to just yet :frowning:

Anyway Job sites I've found very good to look at for Oz is

www.seek.com.au
www.jobnet.com.au
www.mycareer.com.au

Jobnet is the best one (well I believe so anyway). Give them a shot and see what's to offer. The cover all of OZ just select which city you want to run a search in.

Hope that helps :cool:

P.S This is all we need more bloody proms in OZ j/k :smiley: At least you know a real OS though heehee Also we drink our beer COLD down here :slight_smile:

Many thanks for the links, woofie, they're much appreciated. You think you've got problems, I still use 56k dialup :smiley: - Methinks that'll be changing once I get sorted down under.

I can drink my beer warm/cold/frozen/upside down/on my head/back to front/etc. I'm sure I'll cope!

Cheers
ZB

zazzy

You pay a fair bit for high speeds down here :mad:

I'm current with optus cable and leaving them for DSL (moving out and can't keep my cable :frowning: ) But I'll be paying $100 a month for a 1500/512 speed. You have to still pay a fair bit down here for speeds :frowning:

Check out http://www.whirlpool.net.au/ that is an Australian Broadband News website. You can check out what ISP's will provide what service from the website. It doesn't have all of them but has a fair few there.

That should help you find something faster then a 56k.

P.S 56k is still one better then I am right now, my DSL doesn't get connected untill next week :frowning: and my firewall still setup at my old home for my dad to use until I cancel the service. Yeah I left a Cable connection connected for my old man to surf the net :slight_smile:

I agree with what has been posted, but will add that experience with Sun hardware and PROM would be preferable to most shops hiring an admin than x86 experience. I would suggest picking up an Ultra 10 on eBay. They can be had for under $100 with 256MB RAM (which I consider minimum).

Download Solaris 10 and burn it to CD. If you can get it on the Internet and able to send mail, you are well on your way.

That said, there is a lot of talented experienced Solaris admins in the job market, and almost as many jobs. Think about being on call real hard, and then decide if this is what you really want to do.

Good luck.

I am in the USA the midwest (Wisconsin) to be exact and for an IT position where I am is very very hard since it seems that there are more techs then jobs. I will say one thing though that from my experience companies would rather have hands on knowdlege rather then school taught so any self learning that you have and can do will be a plus. I lost my job in 1998 and became a consultant and have been employed ever since so you might want to consider getting a cell phone a few business cards and hit some smaller travel agents (there ticket systems are unix based and need someone the majority of the time). and get a few UNIX/LINUX clients. I say that cause in doing so you might find your next full time UNIX job. also if your learning solaris you might want to take some of the courses you will do a few things 1. you will learn something and 2 you will meet other professionals that will see what your talents are and the lack of experience might not be a factor.

Another thing you might want to consider put together a resume and a letter and apply for a solaris position you know your not qualified for and ask in your letter when the person hireing isnt busy if they can give you some feed back based on your current skills as what you would need besides experinece to land a job. you never know

just trying to help you if I have great if I havent I am sorry.

and on a side topic what does one need to relocate to the land down under if they arent from there no family there ect.

i recently did a few tech interviews with some guys who claimed they knew unix --- solaris actually --- and i was quiet disappointed ... turns out the guys had tried to read a book a few days before their interviews and were thinking that they could pass off their help desk and/or their sys admin experience as something we could use ... unfortunately for them, i do situational interviews where i can assess troubleshooting skills and basic unix knowledge as well as reaction to stress situations in 1 shot so i quickly found out where their weaknesses were ... it's not pleasant to hear people whimpering on the phone sounding like they're begging you to give them a chance ...

... i usually end up cleaning after other people's mistakes (i.e., recovering servers from crashes where the servers have no redundancies of any kind nor any documentation) so i have ulterior motives to be hard-nosed ... i'm not perfect and i'm still learning a lot but i do expect people to at least know how to do the jobs they're applying for before i hire them ...

the moral of the story? if you know what you're doing and you can prove it to the world, it doesn't matter where or how you learned your stuff --- somebody will hire you. if you don't know what you're doing, you'd be whimpering on the phone too.