MAX OS X and GCC Compiler - From the Apple Store!

FYI, the GCC compiler is available for OS X. This means you can easily compile all the super GCC opensource. You can see the GCC and other
projects <A HREF=>HERE</A>.<P>

Also, I looked into how OS X handles OS 9 applications. OS 9 runs as a UNIX process (currently called TruBlueEnvironment). I could kill and restart OS 9 from the OS X command line. Truely amazing!!!<P>

When I needed to run <B>ssh</B> into my server, no problem! SSH comes with the standard OS X distro! I'm sold on this idea, the power and stability of the UNIX kernel and great MAC graphics and desktop software!<P>

In fact, I think we will see great things for UNIX thanks to Apple. It will be interesting to see where we are a year from now!! :slight_smile:

Neo, does OS X have the potential to be as scalable as other UNIX O/S? I regard the scalability of UNIX as one of it's most outstanding features, or do you think OS X is going to stay in the domestic desktop market? I don't necessarily think that would be a bad thing, a UNIX kernel on top of a nice Apple graphics and the accompanying user interface could mean UNIX finally penetrates (fully) into the market dominated by Mircrosoft.

What do others think about this?


Perhaps on the other end of the spectrum...I am a designer who has used a Mac for more than a decade. Building OS X on Unix technology has made learning Unix a little less intimidating for me.

From the little I have already learned, I am sold on Unix for scalability and power, yet I'm still very much an Apple loyalist for graphics. OS X has truly brought together the best of both worlds for me as a web designer/developer: All of the versatility of available GUI software now with the power to integrate with Open Source applications such as Apache server, MySQL, Tomcat, an array of Java development tools etc...and all on my same old Mac!

A couple of things:<P>

First, in OS X, UNIX does not run on top of OS 9 (the legacy Apple OS); UNIX is the core OS of OS X. Apple is planning to port most of their popular legacy OS 9 applications to OS X (UNIX based). <P>
In OS X, OS 9 runs "as a UNIX process" (on top of UNIX). The OS X core is fully scaleable and could be scaled as in any other UNIX if Apple allows for users to rebuild and expand the kernel. It is currently not clear to me if Apple will allow this. (I'm checking into this).<P>

So, if Apple provides the source code, open, for OS X, then OS X will be fully scaleable. If they do not, then there is a problem for UNIX folks that are used to building kernels as required (Linux, BSD, etc.) I hope this is the Apple approach, but I've not yet had the pleasure to build a new OS X kernel and then reboot (as we would on Linux).<P>

Has anyone done this yet?


You may be interested in seeing this development support page of Apple's website:

Of particular interest is the section titled "Darwin is an Open Source project" at the bottom of the page.

Although I haven't been able to find it again, Apple had the entire Darwin core available for download including source code and binaries (120MB).

You can download Darwin (including source) here:

It is released under the Apple Public Source License

Yes, the <A HREF=> DARWIN FAQ</A> seems to indicate that OS X functionality can be realized with DARWIN plus toolkits such as COCOA and CARBON. <P>
Would be great to hear from someone who actually has built modified MAC OS X kernels (and still had full OS X 'out of the box' capability).

I have not had the pleasure of building a OS X kernel myself, but I have checked out the operating system since reading this thread and I have to say I am as excited as Neo about this - if Apple take the correct approach and open the source to allow people from all over to modify and scale the operating system, this could be massive. However that is a big if - it has it's advantages and disadvantages to Apple, we're just going to have to wait and see.

On the scalability issue still, OS X Server seems to me to provide a fair amount, I think the figures were something like over 1,000 simultaneous user connections, 4,000 open files per process, and there is support for multiple 100Mbit NIC's - sounds like it is moving in the correct direction. However I don't think it's a good route for Apple to go down if it involved releasing a desktop OS X and a Server OS X, it sounds too much like Windows, and we all know that the scalability in that operating system is an addon, rather than intrinsic to the actual kernel as it is, and always has been, with UNIX.

Sounds like Neo is right - we have to hope Apple release the source. Other than that I'm off to look at prices of Mac's, this has got me more than a little interested :slight_smile:


I had the good luck of asking these questions with the 'Genius Bar' here at the Apple Store in Tysons. Here is the scoop on "openness":<P>

The core kernel for MAC OS X is Darwin and YES, it is opensource. It is extensible, expandable, scaleable. It is as much UNIX as any UNIX. In an nutshell, Apple has evolved to a UNIX core. The difference lies, primarily in the graphics and user interfaces.<P>

Command line Darwin is just like command line in any UNIX. You can rebuild the kernel, add revise drivers, etc. However, there are licensing issues with what you do for these in a commerical environment. For fun and for your company or for yourself, you can modify the kernel to your hearts content.<P>

The graphical user interface is Apple controlled (proprietary). In a traditional UNIX environment, think of this as replacing X (and X Windows, etc.) with the Apple graphics environment. This is what you pay, super programs like the MAC user interface (on top of the UNIX core Darwin), iMovies, Click-Time, etc. all on top of a multi-tasking, memory management, etc. UNIX core. <P>

In a nutshell, MAC OS X is the marriage of UNIX (the core open system) with Apple graphics (it is more complex than that, but that is the bird's eye view). If you love to run UNIX-based software, you can and you can do this side by side Apple graphics and applications. <P>

So, the core UNIX (Darwin) kernel is open and extensible. The MAC graphics and super desktop applications are not. This is a great marriage; UNIX at the core and Apple at the graphics, application level. That is it, in a nutshell. :slight_smile: I'm more excited every time I play on OS X. I now plan to buy an OS X system and replace my Windows desktop completely with UNIX and Apple, running Microsoft applications like Word and Powerpoint in the Apple environment. This is promising and a giant leap for UNIX, IMHO.<P>
However, not sure about security, user management, logins, etc. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: The systems here boot without a login prompt. Will have to check into how OS X works in a multi-user environment. Still learning ......

OK. Found out that MAC OS X out of the box in the store boots in autologin mode. However, this can all be changed and a multi-user environment can be set up, just like all flavors of UNIX. This can be done, from the command line or via the AQUA graphical interface. <P>

We are pretty luckly to have one of the first new Apple stores in Tysons Corner, VA!!

I have never especially cared for the Mac UI, and I have yet to get the chance to use OS X. However, I hope the interface designers took some lessons from the QuickTime engineers in what <EM>not</EM> to do.

QuickTime 4.0 (on any platform) has to be about the worst UI design Apple has ever put out....

How much horsepower do you reasonably need to run OS X? What kind of prices are those machines going for these days?

Could Apple Take a Bite Out of the Penguin?

Great article MIB, thanks!<P>

The downside of OS X, of course, is that it must run on expensive Apple native hardware (you can't run it on Intel, etc.). So, to 'bite the Apple' so to speak, quite a $$$ investment must be made.<P>
On the other side, it is the $$$$ investments that pay the programmers that develop super graphics and desktop business apps. The open-source model has not proven to be a winner in the desktop graphics and desktop business application area. <P>
Hence, I think Linux and other UNIX servers will continue to grow in the back-end server market where desktop graphics are not the core requirement. However, on the desktop, where folks need the power of business graphics, commerical office automation and multi-media software, the Apple desktop, combined with a UNIX OS, could prove to give Windows a serious challenge in many markets.<P>
One this is for sure, it will be very interesting to watch as things unfold this year and next!! :wink: